Narad: Today is the 27th day of February 2015. It is my last day here for some months and concluding with my beloved friend Pushpa. Pushpa, Namaskar. You know I have known this family for so many years, They have known my wife Mary Helen and loved her and her mother would cook for Mary Helen, called her Baa. Tell us Pushpa when you first heard of Sri Aurobindo and Mother's name. 

Pushpa: I heard when I was in Gujarat and my eldest brother was studying in Poona. And during the movement of Quit India, we were all fighting against the British. So all the colleges and schools were closed. And he had heard of Sri Aurobindo and he had seen in one of the shops of photographs perhaps in Poona and he wanted to come and see him to come to Pondicherry. So he came with some of his friends. 

Narad: What year was this, what year was this approximately?

Pushpa: It was in 1942. So he came with his friends they stayed for some months and they took up work in the ashram and my brother didn't want to come back. And so my mother was really very much worried, that you see now my son is not going to come back and people use to tell her you see in Pondicherry there is one French woman who is like a magician. And she pours the charms and nobody comes back. So she was very sick, not sick physically but psychologically. 

Narad: Troubled yes.

Pushpa: So she you ask her everyday please write to your brother, that come back, come back, come back. And we often did that. And then my uncle was going to get married so my mother said, "You see you ask him to come for the marriage". That is the greatest excuse to bring him back. So we wrote to him and he came back. And when he came back he told us about the ashram. So it took us about two years to decide, not to decide but to I don't know how to get that.

Narad: Well for it to

Pushpa: Realized 

Narad: For it to become realized yes. Did he talk to you about Sri Aurobindo about seeing Sri Aurobindo?

Pushpa: No, seeing except my brother. My brother did. And he had brought Mother's and Sri Aurobindo's photos also signed by them so. And at that time we were staying in Anand that is a city of one of the cities, not cities it was a town of Gujarat but as Indu-bhai mailed his brother and Mani-ben's sister. They had to join the college. Indu-bhai was already in college but Mani ben had finished her matriculation and then she had to enter into the college studies and Jayanti-Bhai the younger brother he would also have to do next year. So we shifted from Anand to Vadodara and there we stayed for one year. And then Indu-bhai said and my mother also said that we will go the Pondicherry and Indu-bhai said you see there wouldn't be any difficulty the schools is there, Leelu and Pushpa can study there. So he came with us with my mother and Leelu and we stayed here. We had rented one small room and we stayed there but it was so nice. One room and there was nothing in that room we had brought beddings so we used to open out the bed and roll up in the morning. And we used to do our homework everything you know. We loved it because whole time we three in the morning we went to the dining at lunch time in the evening. So that's how we came to her. And also before we came we had to send our photographs to Mother and Sri Aurobindo. In those days nobody who wanted to come to ashram could come. Mother had to approve and Sri Aurobindo also has to approve whether they can receive us or not or accept us or not. So the photographs were sent and they said yes, let them come.

Narad: For the whole family 

Pushpa: For the whole family. So we four came before and Mani-ben and Jayanti-bhai had to finish their exam so they came three months later. So that's how we came to Pondicherry. 

Narad: Now what is your first memory of Mother?

Pushpa: The first memory that the day we came we arrived in the morning and we went to her, as far as I remember ten thirty or eleven. But when I went to her I think I was absolutely blank so I don't know what I felt or how I was so I can't say anything 

Narad: Many people say that. How old were you?

Pushpa: I was thirteen years old. 

Narad: Thirteen years old ya, ya 

Pushpa: And then soon after came Mani-ben's birthday was in march 6^th so Mother use to give us for birthday no, bouquet we use to go to her three times, in the morning, with the children at about eleven thirty, then in the evening. So the day before her birthday, I told Mother, "Mother tomorrow is my sister's birthday, but she is not here". So Mother said, "Alright you come tomorrow morning at 6’o clock and I'll see you". That was the time when Mother use to see some other sadhaks also. So I went to her and she gave me a big bouquet and a rose. Then she said 'You see these rose you send to your sister and this bouquet is for you". So I took the bouquet just like this from her hand then she said, "No give me the bouquet". She took that in her hand she held it how it should be held and then she said, 'You see the bouquet should be held like this". So you see that

Narad: I have had many requests for you to talk about Jayanti-bhai, because he was so loved in the school. Tell us a bit about you brother.

Pushpa: I am sorry I can't tell. One thing I can tell that I know when he came here he was working in granary. He was given work in granary. So in those days there were no bullock carts, no lorries, they had to carry the grains from the granary to the Dining Room by a cart which was drawn by the sadhaks. So he use to work in granary and also they have to empty these sacks of grains and all that. Then after that they needed someone in the account office. So Mother changed his work to the account office. Indu-bhai was already working, Indu-bhai is my eldest brother, Anandi, Vidyut's father. And, so both of them use to work. They had to finish all the accounts before they closed the department and Mother use to see each account you know pi by pi in those days we had pi not only paisa, rupees but pi. So if even one pi was not accounted for she would point and she wouldn't like and nobody would leave the work without everything is perfectly done. Then after some months Mother told him that you see now you will work in the school. 

Narad: Oooh, that's when 

Pushpa: To teach French. Then he said, "Mother but I don't know any word of French". Mother said, "Doesn't matter you learn French and you teach French". So that's how he started learning French, he took every occasion to learn French. Whenever there was a French teacher who came or any visitor, French visitor came he would go and learn whatever he could. So that's how he became a French teacher and he was so good at French that even the French teachers whenever they had any doubt they would go to him and say now which one is wrong which one is the correct thing. 

Narad: And he was very much loved by his students

Pushpa: Yes that's true

Narad: Very gentle. Now tell us about your sisters because we have so many things to cover. We have marbling room, we have work with Udar.

Pushpa: Udar I mean he knew but not really but. thank you.

Narad: So Udar

Pushpa: Leelu worked mostly with Udar, 

Narad: Mother put her to work with him. 

Pushpa: Haan. After almost finishing the studies he must have asked Mother or Mother asked her to do and she was the secretary of Udar till the end. For my sisters you ask them please. 

Narad: Tell is about marbling group. How it began, the story of marbling group. Everyone wants to know that.

Pushpa: Marbling group really began with Mani ben. Because she was really fond of art even in Gujarat she was very good for drawing and all that in the art exam also she would always stand first. So here when she came she did join some art classes with the artists. 

Narad: Who was the artist then, do you remember?

Pushpa: Then, Jayantilal and Krishnalal those ones. And then she saw that one lady from Bombay she was a professor in one of the colleges. She came and showed to Champaklal how to do marbling on paper and Champaklal did I think quite many and then Gauri also had started. Then Mani ben saw also with Gauri, then she would say, "I also want to start". So on Sunday after the work she would come and try out with colors. So then afterwards our whole family wanted to do, you know just have the fun it was a fun not really group or anything just only at home. And then I think we made you know stationary, envelopes and insert inside. And then some of the American friends we just gave them as a gift because Mani-ben and I Both were working in Golconde. So we just shared and they loved very much those and they said, "can't you make some more"? So we made some more. So as we were making some of the friends also said that we also want to do marbling with you. So that's how we started and we were doing in Leelu's room on Sunday just little bit and then we had to dry the papers everything in her room. You know that she has breathing problem so it wasn't very pleasant. But still on Sunday we did more friends came and mostly we did at night because during the daytime everybody had their own work. Then we send to Mother also some of these. And Mother liked them very much so somebody else ordered some hundreds or thousands of envelopes like that so we told Mother, "We have this order, what shall we do"? Mother said, "Never refuse any order you must do and give them and send them”. Then after sometime somebody from America said I want a cover for big records. There use to be some big records so I want to make covers for those records. So we made covers for those records and whatever money we received we offered to Mother. So that's how it started. And then somebody said, you know Marie Christa, 

Narad: Oh yes very well 

Pushpa: She said, "Why don't you try on silk". 

Narad: But you use in, how big were the pans 

Pushpa: In the beginning we had only this size 

Narad: Yeah, small at that time for the cards

Pushpa: So it took lot of time also you know to make hundreds of sheets like that. So we tried one on cloth then one on silk and it came very beautiful she said, "why don't you make some more"?. Then one lady from Bombay she said you try one sari. We said but we have nothing to make sari with because it needs so much and we don't have any tray nothing. Then, we said alright we will try out, so without the tray we had that courtyard outside our, outside Leelu's room.

Narad: Just outside Leela's room

Pushpa: And at that time there was no garden near the rooms. It was open place. So we brought bricks made a tray just with the bricks and between the bricks we put some sand. But how to get so much of water to fill up? So we got water from Golconde's canals, you know those fish canals we brought water from there and filled up the thing. But as we filled up the sand would run out, but still we tried whatever we could and with one of my old saris we tried out. It didn't come very beautiful but we did something.

Narad: What medium were you using, oil?

Pushpa: No we were using water and oil based colors. 

Narad: Oil based colors. So it didn't come out so well the first one.

Pushpa: Didn't come so well I had kept with me but then it was in such a bad condition that I had to reject it. I wish I had kept it for showing. And then how did we do. And then we wanted to do real sheets, paper sheets to supply the order. But as there was no place to dry hundreds of sheets in our house, so we asked Mother if we could do in the laboratory. Seen the laboratory on the ground floor. 

Narad: Yeah, yeah

Pushpa: There is elephant's head and the room is covered with many tables. So what we used to do we used to put the elephant's head on one side and on the table we got one tray made we asked Mother whether we could make a tray and whether we could do on Sunday because on Sunday there are no classes. So it was free for us. And we asked Joshi-bhai the gentleman who is in-charge. He said it’s alright because he also use to work with us at night to help us. But where to keep the tray whole week we did only on Sunday. So we use to keep the whole tray in our house in our verandah and then we had to take it Sunday morning to the laboratory so we asked Panu-da, you know Panu-da Mona's brother the eldest brother who was there whether he could give us workers to take the tray, it was very heavy, to the laboratory. So he says on Saturday evening we had to call those men take the tray in the laboratory and then before one day we had to empty that whole place because the classes would be taken there. 

Narad: And you had to fill it with water also?

Pushpa: Yes, we had to empty the water. We used to tie strings on the two adjacent classes to dry the papers. So Monday morning before the classes started we had to remove the tray, so we used to call the men before the school started to take back the tray to our house. Go to laboratory remove all the papers and strings and bring them all home. Then it was a little difficult because so many people were involved and put in difficulty. And in those days the exhibition hall was not used throughout only perhaps three four times per year so it was free. And it was under the charge of this artist Krishnalal and Jayantilal, so we asked them if we could keep the tray there because on the Sunday we will need. And then all the colors and everything we had to take home for the whole week so he said yes. They gave us one small room where we could keep all our materials, keep the tray on one side so every Sunday we could go straight to work there and there was no need of bringing it back or taking back all the colors you know everything  back home. That lasted for quite long. Then Mother said you see I want to give some permanent place to you, because whatever we needed we told her. And she said whatever you need whatever help you want you tell me and I will help you in everything. Then the building which is now built for marbling group was a terrace and we use to send whatever money we offered to her. Then she said you see now don't offer me any money you keep the money with you and with that money you build the place on that terrace, I give you the terrace and you build this building. So that's how we got the marbling group place. And how we could keep everything there  and how we developed. So they used to get many orders for scarves, saris. And then gradually those who were working only on Sunday, they also came on other days. In the beginning we used to marble only on Sunday even in the marbling department. Our whole family and some of the friends, and there we could work right from the morning till the evening and it was really a joy you know everybody was so happy to work together. 

Narad: So you began doing saris

Pushpa: And we had begun making sarees. And then we got orders from all over the country all over the world almost from all the countries but it was always, I think it was the group which was there now it is not so harmonious as before but I think it should be to Mother's really grace and help and those who were there were really dedicated you know.

Narad: You remember, could you tell a little bit about Charles, because Charles would always work with you.

Pushpa: He always worked with us and sometimes you know the orders they wanted in few days or in few weeks so people use to work even till ten o’clock till eleven o’clock and they never minded, they did so happily. They would go home have their bath and lunch or dinner and come back and start work. 

Narad: Now Mani-ben once told me that the marbling was not doing well at one point. 

Pushpa: Yes, 

Narad: And she asked Mother if you could close it. You remember this? 

Pushpa: No I don't remember this.

Narad: Well, what Mani-ben told me was that Mother said, "you don't close it I have my occult reasons it must stay open", very interesting. 

Pushpa: I had heard that about Ravindra-ji. You see Ravindra-ji used to give fruits to all sadhaks. And there were no fruits so he told Mother, "Mother sometimes there is a family of five persons and I have to give only banana to them so can't we stop it'. Mother said, "No, even if there is one banana you keep that one banana because that occult reason is there and plus you see the adverse forces are trying to destroy or to stop all that I want to do." And that Ravindra-ji told Mani-ben but if Mother has told her that I don't know. 

Narad: No I wanted to ask you about some of the older sadhaks that you knew. And that you were close to because there were so many wonderful souls here in those early days.

Pushpa: I can't tell you.

Narad: But you also saw Sri Aurobindo 

Pushpa: Sorry

Narad: You saw Sri Aurobindo didn't you?

Pushpa: I did see Sri Aurobindo but that too when I saw Sri Aurobindo I was zero really I felt nothing. So how can I tell you and even when we saw, we went to Mother I saw only Mother's eyes. Some people came and told me did you see what saree Mother had worn? Did you see how her crown was? I said no I didn't see I was only you see. So I don't know anything else but I can tell you what how I found or how she, how it was when we came. You see when we came there was no playground and in the old school the school was behind Mother's room at present which is in the playground. There was this small house and there we had on the first ground three four rooms and downstairs there were also three four rooms and there was a big courtyard. So mostly I think there were only four or five classes. Right from four or five year’s children to fourteen fifteen. And then there was no playground so Mother had arranged with two ladies to stay in the evening with us. We used to sit in the courtyard and play the sitting games you know like carom and snake and ladder you know those kind of games. And then at about six-thirty we were taken to the ashram because from about six thirty Mother used to come on the circular terrace for meditation. People used to go and sit earlier. And Mother would come and concentrate or bless us I don't know what she did. So during that time children were not allowed to go inside the ashram. So after those games we used to come and sit outside the ashram on the footpath and wait for the parents or those who had guardians also sit there and then they would take us home. So in the beginning the playground was like this and then after sometime there were one or two elderly persons who used to make us play in the playground. The playground was little different in those days and after playing, we had no uniform or anything we used to play with our daily dress. You know some girls in Punjabi, boys in shirt or shorts or in sarees. And after the play we would be given, Mother would send in a basin jaggery and pieces of coconut so big coconut pieces. And Ravindra-ji you knew Ravindra-ji isn't it? He would come with that seat at the gate and to each one he would give us that coconut piece filled with jaggery. Then afterwards when Mother started coming to the playground we were not so many so we could, everybody stood in a line and Mother would, every evening would bring either a toffee or a banana or in the season of maize she would get the maize, steamed or boiled. Butter wrapped up in a butter paper and to each of us she would give that. 

Narad: This was before she started giving groundnuts.

Pushpa: Yes, and after this she started groundnuts. And groundnuts, for groundnuts also we use to stand in a line not the whole length of the playground because there were short lines.  And then she would give groundnuts and afterwards she got some bags made in silk and they were all filled with groundnuts so to each one she gave the bag. And at the end before going home we had to give that empty bag to Ravindra-ji who will be sitting at the gate. But afterwards the bag system stopped because they were missing. The number of bags were missing. Then she started giving groundnuts herself, a girl, you know Usha isn't it?

Narad: Yes yes

Pushpa: She would come; she would walk with Mother with the basin of groundnuts and Mother with a spoon to give to each one. And then afterwards she found that everybody didn't eat all the groundnuts that she gave, some perhaps had some medical reason or not the she said one day, "you see those who want only one or two or few please tell me when I distribute". So we had to tell. Everybody had to tell how much she or he wanted and I always told her, “plein Mere". I want a full, full groundnuts. Then one day she, you are my good "bon cliere", and I was happy because I really wanted and it was no nice to get groundnuts from her. 

Narad: You remember how it was on your birthdays?